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CORRESPONDENCE
See the NSS newsline for regular
letters
on education, and other subjects
Top
This reply is to worries that are commonly
expressed by parents when writing to this site.
Hello
........
With few exceptions your letter is similar to many we
receive.
You do not say whether the school advertises itself as
a Christian school, if it does then I suppose parents
have to accept that, and in making your views known
have done all you can in the circumstances.
In addition
to your conversation with the religious head teacher,
you could also make your views known to any others who
'teach' your daughter, explaining you dilemma. (It
makes my blood boil, that any teacher who respects
children's right to objective education, should assert
his/her religious beliefs over children, but that is
neither here nor there in the scheme of things. Of
course it is like all missionaries, their 'gifts' come
at the price of their 'message'!)
However, you as her parent will have more influence
than any school., and if you respect her rights to
hear all sides of a story so that she will be able to
make up her own mind she will, even at the age of
seven, understand your dilemma. Talk to her about how
you feel about this aspect of the school, and ask her
what she thinks. I would be confident that in
the future she will appreciate you honesty and respect
for her.
What you can
do that the school cannot do, is to give her the other
side of any story they tell, you can explain why they
want to limit her thinking and how they use (the
psychological techniques) (in this case
"going to church in school time three times a
week") but using appropriate language of
course e.g. "They want you to think that there is
some magic in their candles, hymns and priests in
robes, that will stop you from thinking about what
they are saying" (Have you read the publication
on 'A Theory of Belief' on the website (under
AtheistPerspectives?)
Bring the subject up, but without making too much of
it. so that you can talk about what they are telling
her, and show her how to question what they say. Show
how there are different ways to think about things.
You can also point out that on any given subject,
while those who believe in god will try to give her
only one option, you will give her other ideas, and
particularly show her how to question what ANYONE
tells her as 'the truth' - even you. She also needs to
know that she does not have to bring any of this up at
school unless she wants to.
On the Christmas story, you may like to look at one of
the papers on the website www.c.s.e.freeuk.com/XmasWithoutheNativity.htm
(it is on the 'Primary resources' part of the site.
And there is a similar explanation of the origins of
Easter in the pagan fertility celebrations.
I have also been looking for other material and have
found what I think may be quite a good video
explaining how to work out the fallacies of religion
and have found one on 'proving that prayer doesn't
work' - that I think is very cleverly done. But it us
up to parents who know their children to find
appropriate ways to counter what they are told. I
would like to ask you to have a look at this video and
perhaps ask your daughter what she makes of it, and
let me know what you both think.
And you might also like some very good for adults and
young people from Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris &
few others.
I hope this is of use. I would just add that if you
teach your daughter to question everything, she will
not go far wrong.
Best Wishes
Chris (for Campaign for Secular Education)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0rFZIqo8A&mode=related&search=
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Top
Frank
Dobson, one of 65 Labour backbenchers opposing the
proposal to increase the number of religious schools,
is trying to force faith schools to take a quarter of
pupils of other faiths or none. (A minimal step in the
right direction as I am sure he would agree)
Together with Liberal Democrat education spokesman, Phil
Willis , a Xian who is not against church schools per se,
Mr Dobson has tabled an amendment to the Education Bill,
which is currently passing through parliament.
The Education Department is reported to have said that of
340 letters it had received from the public about its
plans to expand faith schools, only five had been in
favour.
The Lib. Dems. have also tabled an amendment that would
remove the ability of church schools to discriminate
against teachers and other staff who are not religious or
whose lifestyle is not approved of by the religious people
who run these schools.
(Sections 58 and 60 of the
Schools
Standards and Framework Act 1998.)
Keith
Porteous Wood, Executive Director of the NSS said:
"We are pleased that the Government appears to be
responding to the alarm being expressed throughout the
country at the prospect of ever more faith schools. We
hope that Phil Willis and Frank Dobson's amendment are the
absolute minimum concession that the Government would
make. We would much rather they listened to the widespread
opposition to this idea, and convert faith schools seeking
public funding to community schools. But with the present
incumbent in Downing Street, this seems unlikely."
The Newsline bulletin can
be read each week on the NSS
website or it can be sent to you direct on application.
Philosophy
in Schools?
It is a mistake to think
that Philosophy as a subject is likely to be acceptable
just as a substitute for RE/RI.
There are two aspects of
philosophy in schools, one is as an academic subject,
the second is how could it be brought into or eventually
replace, what is currently called RE.
Philosophy as a Subject
- Only part of philosophy as an academic subject would
deal with religions, philosophy would include for
example, logic and political philosophy, which would not
be relevant within the current, or amended context of
RE/RI , whereas ethics and philosophy of religion would
be.
Philosophy in Secondary
Schools -as 'a vote winner' ? -While GCSE divinity
is favoured as it is generally seen as a 'soft option'
to increase the numbers of passes. (which has pointed
out elsewhere) discriminates against young people from
non-religious backgrounds, philosophy which is much more
difficult, as an A-level subject has, I understand, not
attracted a great take-up. If it is favoured by teachers
it may result in increased demand. It would be
interesting to know if there are any figures, - what
evidence there is, is anecdotal. More research needed.
Philosophy as an
Educational Tool - Yes of course philosophy is
useful as an educational subject, however as an academic
subject it is much more than just a consideration of
religions, and although it is good to promote, replacing
RE/RI, much as we would like it is unlikely to be
accepted in this country as a straight swap in the
foreseeable future, especially in primary schools. It is
also true to say that one factor in its promotion is the
importance it is given by higher education for critical
and rational thinking which would, we expect, favour
atheist/humanist/secularist views on religion, and
ethics.
Philosophy Instead of
RE/RI - Hand in hand has to go progress towards
rounded secular, ethical world belief systems education
. ( Suitably amended, this may have to continue under
the RE title, but eventually this should be changed.
'Citizenship' has been suggested, but implies more
political/ constitutional, rather than ethical issues).
Education and teaching are
not synonymous; education includes teaching but also
includes student autonomy and activity.
Sue Mayer
Top
BHA has had it on good
authority that "wholly or mainly of a broadly
Christian character" can mean that 49% of school
assemblies can be non-Christian".
FromSandy
Edwards (Education Officer, Humanist Soc. of
Scotland.)
The one thing that I do find
remarkable is the way that English schools put up with
having to have religious "worship"! We are
meant to have religious "observance" in our
schools, but two-thirds of them never have any religious
assemblies at all and haven't for years.
This has resulted in a
Government review into the format of school assemblies.
Careful reading of the education act (Scotland) shows
that it does not specify that Rel. observance has to be
specifically in assembly! Maybe this is the same for
your worship?
Also, if prayers where ever brought back into school
assemblies there would be a riot from teachers, parents
and particularly pupils! (Except for denom. schools and
a few private ones). I think the schools get away with
not having a religious assembly, not because of a
loophole in the law but by providing an adequate and
good secular assembly. If told that they had to change I
think they would stand
up to the Education Authority and just say "what
are you going to do then?" Any punitive action
would not go down to well with the local community, most
of whom are concerned with behaviour, dress, drugs and
academic success for their local school, not the format
of school assemblies.
Perhaps those schools in
England with problems over prayers should do the same,
particularly if they are turning out reasonable pupils.
It might force the Government to review the situation.
Sandy Edwards (Ex. Education Officer, Humanist Soc. of
Scotland.)
I have not checked this out-
ed:
Dear humanists,
Just a small recomendation. I picked up vol.1 of the
graphic
novel 'Astro Boy' the other day and was very impressed.
Astro Boy is a robot boy created by Japanese scientists,
who is
programmed to have human emotions and robot superpowers.
The various
stories find him using his robot abilities to help
people. The reason
I am mentioning this to everyone is because of the
themes the comic
deals with. Vol.1 deals with questions such as, whether
cyborgs are
robots or living creatures, whether it's fair to treat
robots with
emotions as servants and slaves and when does a organism
become
conscious. The comic's creator Osamu Tezuka produced
this series
during the fifties and sixties with the deliberate
intention of
encouraging readers to address these issues with
understanding and
compassion. The comic is really sweet and suitable both
for children
and adults. The artwork is really nice, the translation
is first rate
and the action packed storylines are interspersed with
quirky humour.
Take a peek!
Clare
Top
I'm hoping you will be able
to provide me with some links to useful
resources and maybe some like-minded parents. My five
year old daughter
attends our local state school, which didn't appear to
be particularly
religious. However, having been there a little over a
year, she now
comes home regularly telling me the things she has
learned, including
how God made the world, how angels made the first people
out of clay and
that people have different coloured skin because the
angels left them in
the oven longer than the white people! She is convinced
that these
things are true, and is upset at the very thought of her
parents
disagreeing with her (both Kate and myself are atheists,
and have
explained many times, in different ways, why we believe
God is a myth).
We don't seem to be making any headway.
I'd like to raise it at Sophie's parents' evening next
week, and I want
to research in advance what are the legal requirements,
and what grounds
I have to object to the level of Christian 'teaching'
going on in her
school. We can't be the only parents who think like
this, but how do we
find others?
Top
Re the letter from Gavin Parker (Newsline,) who is
concerned about his little daughter coming home singing
Christian songs. One of my sons came home from school when
he was little and told me that the teacher had said that
the thoughts in their heads were the Voice of God. I
imagine my reaction to such nonsense was negative.
Fortunately all my 3 sons grew up and thought things out
for themselves and they are now adults with their own view
of the world, not mine, I hasten to add. I am sure Mr
Parker will find the same thing when his little daughter
grows older. I sometimes think the sense of children will
outgrow the nonsense that schools still try and instil in
them. Finally I wonder what NSS members think of the
Heaven and Earth Show on BBC1 on Sunday mornings. I call
it a nice little front for religious proselytisers, with
no space for real arguments or contradictions.
From Sarah Robbins:
In response to Gavin Parker’s letter, I have to say I
completely understand where he is coming from. My son
starts school in September and the law states that schools
must run a broadly Christian based assembly. I am
seriously worried about the impact of this on my son. We
are not raising him in any belief system and nor do I wish
him, nor my younger child when they go to school, to be
exposed to any religious doctrine. Yet the law states he
must go to school and that schools must obey this
ridiculous assembly law.
If I wish, I can take him out of the assemblies, but
children can have a hard enough time in school without
making them ‘different’ to the others. If he chooses
to be left out later I will write a letter to the school
requesting this on his behalf but, in the meantime, I have
to worry about his exposure to this idiocy and, like
Gavin, it does indeed make my blood run cold.
On a side note, I find it interesting that this issue is
often dismissed by people with ‘oh, it won’t really
affect them, it’s not important’. I wonder how
important it would be if children were suddenly exposed to
an assembly of a broadly atheist/islam/pagan/buddhist/spiritualist/etc
base?
From Hamish Renfrew:
I found myself in the same situation as Gavin
Parker. When visiting schools prior to selection I made
sure to ask what their policy and stand was in regard to
‘god-bothering’ and was somewhat disappointed at the
number of self confessed ‘christians’ in key positions
in the State Education system.
At the School we chose I asked their advice as to whether,
or not, I should withdraw her from RE and was assured that
there was nothing of any cause for concern in the early
years. Imagine my horror when at the first half-term break
my four year old daughter brought home a document
outlining the syllabus for the next half-term, in it under
the heading ‘Knowledge and understanding of the world’
..... “In RE the children will learn about the
importance of Baptism, Mothering Sunday and the Easter
celebration.” Baptism with a capital B (see also George
W, Grinning chimp, etc.) None of her family are baptised
nor do I see its importance as a message a school should
impart to a four year old! I went ballistic! I thought
this kind of crap had gone with the belt, polio victims in
calipers, mortar board hats for teachers and signs on
boarding houses saying “No Blacks No Irish”!
I was eventually directed to my LEA who employ an official
of the diocese of Rochester to write their syllabus for
religious education and supervise it; at least I know my
council tax isn’t being wasted! Maybe we could
commission the pope to give contraceptive advice?
Thus started a long and occasionally difficult journey
through the nightmare of trying to ensure child protection
in the face of a state (doesn’t that mean us?) sponsored
program of projecting the fantasies of a minority on our
society’s most innocent consumers of knowledge. The
highlight so far: visit to a Fire Station = consent to
leave school premises form, visit to a Baptist church = no
consent sought. (Did I miss the Ferns inquiry into
paedophile firemen?)
One tip which may help to get the authorities’ attention
is to point out the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report’s
definition of racism: “conduct or words which advantage
or disadvantage people because of their colour, culture or
ethnic origin. In its more subtle form it is as damaging
as in its more overt form.”
My Chambers defines ethnic as “concerning nations or
races: pertaining to gentiles or the heathen.” Doesn’t
that qualify the school as institutionally racist and in
breach of their own equality policy? Unfortunately for the
non-deluded there is no easy answer. Welcome to the
minefield of trying to protect your offspring without
alienating them from their peers. Like-minded staff
suggest mass withdrawal of schoolchildren from RE would be
a good start.
From Antony Lempert:
I share Gavin Parker’s dismay at the formal
indoctrination of young impressionable people in our
theocratic democracy. I too have a 5 year old daughter at
school. The question is whether to risk isolating our
children at school by withdrawing them from religious
worship and/or religious education (as is our right under
the Education Act) or risk them becoming indoctrinated.
The latter course of action tacitly supports the status
quo. Nor does it do anything to encourage others to
challenge their blinkered world views.
Bullies have worked on this principle for years. The
bullied have forever been put in an invidious position. Do
we speak out and risk further humiliation or suffer in
silence? Worse still when speaking out might expose our
children to the risk of bullying.
I recently wrote to my daughter’s school expressing my
sadness and distress that she had been allocated a part as
an angel in a blatantly evangelistic school nativity play
production. This was against our and her express wishes
that she not be involved in acts of religious worship.
Their reply has been my best weapon. It was so shoddy and
lacking in compassion and insight that I was able to write
back picking it to pieces and offering to help them to
fulfil their obligations towards me under the terms of the
1944 Education Act. Within a day of my second letter, both
the headteacher and the chair of the governors were
knocking at the door to meet with me. I honestly think
they simply hadn’t got the point. Most religionists
simply can’t see what the harm is for others to get
involved in their iddy biddy little lovely religion.
Unless we challenge the status quo, it won’t change and
our grandchildren will face the same nonsense that our
children are now facing. I don’t buy the oft-repeated
pat on the back from other secularists/humanists who
suggest that our children will be alright Jack because
they have us as parents. I don’t doubt it. What about
all the other children subjected to an ‘education’ of
indoctrination? Some of them will see through the fog and
escape to some clear sky as some of us did. History shows
us that most won’t. They will support their religion of
birth, whether by default, by guilt or by coercion thereby
allowing it to continue oppressing the rest of us on the
outside of their religion of birth. More sticks, more
swords, more guns, more bombs in the name of the One True
Lord, or the many true lords of their religion of birth.
Anyone interested in sharing ideas/letters/tactics please
email me on ant.lempert@doctors.org.uk
From Tim Scott:
If it’s any help to Gavin Parker, the course of
action that I took when I found that my daughter was being
indoctrinated at school from an early age was to
counteract the poisonous christian message by taking the
opposite point of view at home at every opportunity. At
such a young age, children take far more notice of their
parents than they do of teachers, so for every hymn she
sang, I’d make up a humorous atheist ditty to sing at
home. For every Jesus-flavoured story, I’d explain that
it wasn’t a miracle, and put forward a likely
explanation. Now at the age of 12, my daughter is as much
of an atheist as I’ve ever been. I’d suggest to Gavin
that if his daughter likes singing she should carry on,
but expand her repertoire to include a godless point of
view. Perhaps someone should record a CD of atheist songs
for children.....
From Penny Jaques:
Chill out Gavin! A 5 year old needs to enjoy all sorts of
imaginary people and animals and toys who talk and Santa
Claus and the tooth fairy etc. Just tell her that some
people believe some things are true and others do not. Let
her join in everything at school. Forbidding something is
the best way to make it attractive. Many years ago our son
then aged 7 went camping with the Crusaders and had a
great time and came home telling us he believed in Jesus.
We showed only a mild interest and asked him about the
camping. A week later he announced that he no longer
believed in Jesus but he did believe in space. He still
loves camping and space
Top
WOULD
YOU ADAM AND EVE IT?'
An article in
the Kentish Times entitled 'Would you Adam and Ever it'
reported what it called "the most ludicrous
situation" played out in Bradford, where at Cannon
Slade secondary school, where the headmaster, the Rev Peter
Shepherd is insisting that pupils should not be admitted to
his school unless their parents 'sign in' for 48 church
services a year.
In order to
check this, he wants them to produce notes from vicars to
prove that they have worshipped the required number of
times. And he reportedly has the backing of 130 local
clergy!
The writer goes
on to say that it will lead to hundreds of non-believers
kneeling in bogus prayer in order to get their children into
'his' school. And goes on to comment "and what a
scandal that in the 21st century, Britain we are still
exposing children to notions of religious faith at an age
when they still believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
Still that's how the church likes it: grab 'em when they're
gullible, when they're young"
LANCASHIRE
CHURCHES TO INCREASE THEIR STRANGLEHOLD ON LOCAL
EDUCATION
Discussions have
begun to create a joint Roman Catholic and Church of England
school in Rochdale, Lancashire. Talks are centred on St
Joseph's RC High School, Heywood, which is facing a
declining number of pupils.
A working party
will report back to the Catholic Bishop of Salford and the
Anglican Bishop of Manchester in the summer.
Manchester's
Diocesan director of education, Jan Ainsworth, said:
"Our board is very strongly committed to increasing
Church of England secondary school places. We are presently
in discussion with the Roman Catholic diocese of Salford and
the governors of St Joseph's High School about the possible
creation of a joint Roman Catholic-Church of England high
school there. We believe there is a significant demand in
Rochdale from parents who want Church of England education
for their children. We would like to see this within the
borough of Rochdale. The talks so far have included parish
priests and school governors from St Joseph's and they have
started looking at the areas of admissions and recruitment
and will be visiting similar existing joint schools in other
parts of the country."
Rochdale
Council's education chiefs have also been involved in the
early talks.
The Vicar of
Milnrow, the Rev Robin Usher, who has led the call for a new
CofE high school for Rochdale said: "Church schools do
often seem to be more attractive than county schools and
that makes them difficult to get in to. The more applicants
there are, the tighter the admissions criteria – a sort of
educational supply-and-demand process.
"The two
Church of England high schools in Oldham attract vastly more
applicants than they have places for, as many who have tried
to get their children in them have found. The situation at
the moment is that even with, say, 100 per cent attendance
at Sunday school, a child stands very little chance to be a
successful application.
"Even an
application with 100 per cent Sunday school attendance plus
100 per cent church attendance by a parent sustained over a
period of 10 years is not certain to be successful.
"There is
clearly a case for change. Perhaps the Church, and I think
particularly of Manchester Diocesan Board of Education,
ought to consider a new church high school for Rochdale to
relieve the pressure on Blue Coat and Crompton House
School."
Keith Porteous
Wood of the National Secular Society said: "This is yet
another disgraceful example of the Church using tax payers'
money to force people to attend its services in order to get
their children into a state school. Robin Usher must be
rubbing his hands at the prospect of having such power over
parents – and we all have to pay for it."
Top
RELIGIOUS
APARTHEID DEMANDED IN SCOTTISH SCHOOLS
The Catholic
Church in Scotland has tried to distance itself from a row
over separate facilities on proposed shared school campuses.
Earlier in the
week, the Church had told North Lanarkshire Council that it
would withdraw from a major school project unless it
received a written guarantee that its staff would have
separate entrances, staff rooms and toilets.
The Church and
the Council have agreed to create seven new school campuses
that would have Catholic and non- denominational schools on
the same property using £150 million of public money.
Although the schools would share some facilities they would,
in effect, be separate.
Bishop Joseph
Devine of Motherwell has now withdrawn the deadline and said
that discussion are continuing. However, there is no
suggestion that the demands for separate staff facilities
had been dropped.
Last week
parents at the school called an emergency meeting after a
15-year-old boy had to be taken to hospital following an
attack by a gang from Dalkeith, where a shared campus school
is situated.. Another girl had to have glass removed from
her eye after a school bus was stoned. Four families are
refusing to send their children to the school.
A survey carried
out by the National Centre for Social Research in 2002
showed that 81% of Scots believed separate Catholic
schooling should be phased out, a rise of 5% since 1992.
Among the Catholic community, 59% believed it should be
ended, a rise of 12%.
Keith Porteous
Wood of the National Secular Society said: "This is a
shocking demonstration of how denominational schools so
easily lead to conflict and division. The Catholic Church is
arrogant and separatist and it saddens me that the Scottish
political establishment doesn't have the courage to stand up
to this attempt to create apartheid in schools. These shared
campuses seem to intensify differences rather than create
understanding. The abolition of religiously separate
education is long overdue."
See also:
Violence on shared campus http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1129205,00.htm
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Daphne
duMaurier